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Socoder -> Off Topic -> How to be Productive |
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 00:41 | |
blanko1324
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How do you keep yourself programming? - Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? -=-=- My Twitter 
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 00:50 | |
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blanko1324
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The reason I ask this is because my technique hasn't been working for me lately. I program... - Late at night. After midnight and well into the morning hours, usually. - With a glass of water or tea. Sometimes a bag of pretzels. - Mostly in the dark. - With some reference books nearby, but no knic-knacs. - While listening to a lot of different types of music. I like to experiment with what works best. Sometimes I'll switch it to a podcast, or just watch some late night sitcoms. - While on IRC, and AIM, and I constantly check websites like Digg. Bad habit. - With a lot of breaks in between. Also a bad habit. - One line of code, then compile and run. I really hate this habit, yet it's so hard to break. Every time I press F9, I mentally slap myself. This routine sucks. I hardly get anything done anymore. Guys, give me some better examples. -=-=- My Twitter
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 00:50 | |
shroom_monk
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? I usually program in the day, cos my parents won't let me stay up all night...  - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Food and drink near a computer!!!  Never!- Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? If it's dark outside, then in the dark. If it's light outside, with the curtains open. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? Not deliberately. But I keep getting distracted thinking my USB stick lid is an intergalactic spaceship... o_O - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? I don't listen to music... - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Too distracting. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? Sometimes, if I'm doing something that I don't care about how long it takes. But if it's something that needs doing, I shut myself off from the world. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? I sometimes take breaks, if I can't think what to do next. But usually, I just keep on coding. - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? I code as few lines as possible to make something new happen, then I test it. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom! |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 03:31 | |
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ingenium1 |
- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? "I program mostly between 18.00 and 22.30..." - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? "Coca-cola, Fanta... nothing to eat... i usually use the hands to write on the keyboard  "- Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? "In the dark... or sometimes with soft lights..." - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? "What's a knic-knacs???" - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? "Both them... for example yesterday I was listening to the soundtrack of "the lord of the rings"... and now I am listening to "My Chemical Romance"..." - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? "Sometimes to the radio..." - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? "I surf the internet..." - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? "Ehmm... I don't take breaks... I think to my programs all the day..." - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? "I find myself compiling and running my program after every new line of code I type..." -=-=- Roger Federer is go(o)d. But he is not alone. Just relax... sometimes there's no need to argue.
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 04:36 | |
JL235
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? It depends when I feel like it. Usually early in the morning or late into the night. Sometimes during the day, but people knock on my door and I go round to mates and so on during the day. Their too much of a distraction. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Coffee, and noodles when I get hungry and have a break. I don't like having food around my pc when I'm working. It's hard to type. Although my food and kettle is kept next to the pc. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? A well lit room. I try not to have it dark, or too bright. I want to feel comfortable. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? I try to have as little around my pc as possible, so it's not cluttered. But usually any reference books and games I'm recently looking at. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? I usually listen to music. I find it helps to get me in the mood, but hate it when it stops and I leave it ages before putting something else on. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Only during a break, and often something off the BBC or Channel 9 websites. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? Mud Chat and Messenger, nothing else. But usually when I code none of my mates are online. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? Depends how hungry I am. When I sit down to program I like to do at least a few hours. And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? It depends entirely on what I am coding or changing. Usually I'll compile after I've implimented or changed a whole aspect or feature. That change might be 2 lines long, or it might be 200 lines. But usually the beginning is when I go the longest without compiling, often writing half the program (at least) before doing the first compile. With the Game Creation Environment I had written over 1,000 lines before I tried compiling for the first time. When I was changing it to use OpenGL and SDL instead of Rubygames for the graphics, again I went through all the classes which used Rubygames and changed all the code before trying to compile. Those classes were probably around 600 lines long (although I wasn't re-writing the whole class). These days I'm getting far less bugs, and their nearly always small trivial syntax errors (mis-spellings or missing end of lines) which only take seconds to fix. |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 05:13 | |
Jayenkai
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? I program whenever the heck I feel like it! I used to code more at night, but I've recently been getting a decent night's sleep, so tend to code during the day instead. To be honest, I prefered coding at night! - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Big-ass bags of Skittles, but the whole village seems to have bizarrely run out of them at the minute. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? Lights on, or Curtains open. I can't code in the dark since it tends to hurt my eyes. Long sight + glasses = weird optical issues! If I take the glasses off, I can't see the screen, but with them I get screen-burn rather quickly. I might have to go the Bifocal way, but they'll probably make me look even more like a nerd! The issue seems to have been amplified since I got the TFT screen. I might go back to the CRT. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? No. I tend to fidget a lot, so any silly things around my desk will usually end up making me play with them. I tend fidget a lot.. Even silly little bits of plastic must be removed before coding. I tend fidget a lot... - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? Japanese Music. Or rather, Music that my brain won't try to sing along with, or attempt to translate. Music that is decent, has a good melody, and a decent tempo, but that I can't understand a word of, so can concentrate on my coding. Worryingly, I seem to be picking up bits of Japanese now, so that's not really working as well as it used to. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? I used to listen to quite a few Podcasts, actually, but stopped doing that when my PC was conking out. Had to stop running iPodder (Citrus/Fruit/Whatever it was renamed to) since it slowed down the PC. I might go back to podcasts.. (But, of course, never whilst coding.. See above) - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? If you see me on IM/Mudchat, I'm probably in a none-coding mood! The websites take up about 10-20 mins (maybe longer if I'm posting) in my day, and I do it about 4 times a day. Morning, Noon, Before work, After Work. What a waste of time! - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? Whilst coding, time has no meaning! - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? It depends on the situation. I tend to do the "Tweak a bit, Rerun" thing when I get down to the fairly complex maths, since I prefer Trial and Error to Pen+Paper then Code. But for the most part, I can code pretty decent chunks at a time. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Yep, sure does!! Oh, and Happy Birthday... -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 06:51 | |
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JL235
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When I actually go sit down and code, my routine works very well for me. I also have paper and stationary nearby so I can draw out ideas and work out what I want to do (especially if it involves maths). |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 07:17 | |
Blitz3Dman
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Yea, it's always much easier to write out the equation on paper first before you find out how to do it in a program. But otherwise I always have an untitled open to type in say, something like 'Print resulttosuchandsuchequation' Contrary to Jayenkai, I find trial and error much less productive than paper. For example, I was trying to get this equation into a program for months, years possibly: hp / maxhp = X / 255 And once I wrote it down yesterday for use in my newest program, I actually got it. Try putting that into a computer by trial and error. Gives you a headache, eh? It's an algorith to see how much it should fade a color for something such as an hp bar without a table to tell it. How do you keep yourself programming? - Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? Whenever I'm at the computer. doesn't matter, but sometimes if I've beeen active at day my head hurts trying to think in the later hours. Also, my Mom doesn't let me stay up past 10 very often. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Nope, never. The only times I eat at my computer are because I don't want to sit at the kitchen table away from my precious program. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? Lights on, usually. It's much easier to squint at individual pixels to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to in bright light. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? Do office supplies and programming books count? - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? For one, I don't listen to music. For two, It doesn't help me to focus really. I program best in complete silence. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Same as above, too distracting. Sounds can really bother me when I program. They like to come in and redirect my attention from programming to them. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? If I program for too long straight, I cannot concentrate as well. When I need a break, I play a video game for a little while to get my brain refreshed. I visit programming forums very often while programming, often for help, suggestions, or showing off what I have so far. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? A break an hour keeps the headache away... And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? I compile only when I've made a large chunk of code so the compiler will tell me if I have any screwy junk, and I make sure it's working by testing it. Later in the program when I'm only adding bells and whistles to it I test a lot. When I'm dealing with images, I test every line to make sure it's looking right (or chunk if I'm dealing with particles, obviously)I never test my program until the main framework and types have been set up. But what is most important is the desire to program. When I have no desire, I don't program (which rarely happens anyway). Programming should be enjoyed, not forced labor. When you need ideas, play video games, seriously. They make you wonder very often, "hmm, I wonder how they took the ball and made it bounce so incredibly accurately." and when you think that, figure it out and write a program to do it yourself. -=-=- There are 10 kinds of people in this world - ( Insert 16 remarks about to what extent people know hex here ) |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 07:45 | |
svrman
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? Late nights. For some reason I'm more relaxed at this time and it's easier to concentrate. Though perhaps staying up through the night is why I'm so fidgety in the day. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Good old cup o' Tea and a packet of crisps, if any's available. Hot drinks work for me. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? lights on. Pretty hard to see the keyboard otherwise. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? My desk is usually full of empty crisp packets or sweet wrappers or empty cups and other crap. Wait.. actually... my whole room is about the same lol. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? I just leave my player on shuffle. Sometimes the music triggers the right mood/atmosphere/emotions/memories and you get bloody fantastic ideas/revelations/creativity or just a moment of giggles. Helps if you have sisters/brothers who share the music library and add their own tastes of music. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Youtube and tv-links.co.uk. Usually when I've given up for the night. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? Most of my IM buddies are asleep at 3am so no fun there. Usually I need the internet as a point of reference whilst coding so I can't really turn it off. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? I'm with jay on this one. And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? I do build/check often usually after a function or a method, though it really does slow down the pace. When using blitzmax and using frameworks, it's not that bad. Funny enough, I do the same when writing up html! I guess it's a bad habit of mine. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Sometimes. I can't really force a routine if I'm just not up to it for the moment. I try something else like drawing, writing, planning, designing and other stuff. Oh, and Happy Birthday! (sry abit late!) -=-=- BlitzRSS script back online!
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 07:46 | |
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JL235
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I didn't mean writing and calculating formulas down on paper, but more to drawn diagrams. For example with creating the oval overlapping function. Once I drew two ovals, and drew triangles all over them, I knew exactly what I'd need to do to calculate if their overlapping or not. A diagram is worth a thousand formulas. |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 07:48 | |
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Blitz3Dman
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Ah.... yes, that's even more necessary to do on paper. "A pencil has a great vocabulary!" ? -=-=- There are 10 kinds of people in this world - ( Insert 16 remarks about to what extent people know hex here ) |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 08:36 | |
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mike_g |
- Do you program late at night Yes because theres nothing around to disturb. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Lots of tea or coffee. I don't tend to eat much when coding. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? Lights on, but a dim light. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you motvated I got tons of stuff but most of its just mess that I havent got around to tidying. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a I listen to music only when I'm coding stuff that I dont have to think too much about. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Nope. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Often, but its distracting. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? Power code - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Usually when I find it hard to get into coding I spend more time testing my prog then writing it. Generally I only test things once I have finished a block/function except when theres bugs and it needs lots of testing to find out whats wrong. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Yep 
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| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 15:38 | |
HoboBen
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? Usually I start coding at 10pm and carry on until 4am on a weekday, or 7am on a holiday or weekend. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Constantly drinking tea Occasionally something alcoholic or something alcoholic added to the tea (usually rum) - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? Lights slightly on - the lights have dimmer switches, so I have something almost dark, but better for the eyes. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? Never thought of using knic-knacs. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? Love music, but never remember to put any on while coding. I hear my sister's crap until my sister goes to bed (sometimes as late as 1am) - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? No, distracting and annoying. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? I spend too much time on here (tried not to recently), or reading a select few blogs and online comics. I work better without distractions, but if I'm doing PHP work I can't disconnect from the Internet! - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? Three times a night I stop to have a snack. (Toast!) - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? Jayenkai  It depends on the situation. I tend to do the "Tweak a bit, Rerun" thing when I get down to the fairly complex maths, since I prefer Trial and Error to Pen+Paper then Code. But for the most part, I can code pretty decent chunks at a time. Ditto, but when I'm demotivated I'll just waste time re-compiling every time I add a new commented line to the code even though that makes no change. I should just go for a walk instead, as then I work better after the break, but I don't like disturbing my mum by noisily entering+exiting at 3am! DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Sometimes, depending on mood Sometimes I think about whether to play Final Fantasy XII (I don't usually play games!) or whether to code. When the urge to code wins, I get a lot of work done. When I'm coding out of bordem, I don't do much. -=-=- blog | work | code | more code |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 15:52 | |
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JL235
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HoboBen When the urge to code wins, I get a lot of work done. When I'm coding out of bordem, I don't do much.I completely agree with that, for most occasions. When I'm coding for work I have money as a nice incentive to get work done. Which lately can be the only incentive. |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 16:55 | |
Phoenix
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? At night, I usually don't have time at day. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Water, tea and sandwiches. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? Lights on, unless I forget to turn them on, which happens quite often. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? I don't know what a knic-knac is, so I suppose I don't have one next to me  - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? I often listen to music, diffrent types every day. Sometimes rock, sometimes more relaxed songs. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Never. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? I spend way too much time lurking around diffrent websites and talking on MSN. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? No breaks, not counting toilet visits - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? I can write a fairly big parts of code without compiling, but then I start to fine tune and compile after every little number I change. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? No, I never get anything done, I'm always distracted by other things. I really should do something about it. |
| Sun, 08 Apr 2007, 21:49 | |
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hyruleknight |
i have been taking a giant break from coding, i need a routine and badly i keep knic-knacs on my desk, IMs open and books nearby my old routine was ok but i was always having to work longer than i expected, maybe because coding is more of a hobby right now and it's priority level is lower than homework is. i usually code at night when my family is asleep or when they are all away. -=-=- i like green haired girls... |
| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 02:57 | |
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blanko1324
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Tonight, I had a breakthrough! It is now five in the morning. I've been coding since two, I think. The lights are out, it's dead silent, and I've got my tea. I didn't make much progress, but I fixed some broken bits and cleaned up a bit. It's a start...
-=-=- My Twitter
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| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 06:55 | |
steve_ancell
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? Mainly at night. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? Yes, and anything thats easy to prepare. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? I dont mind, it depends is I can be bothered to get off my chair to turn the light on. I hardly look at the keyboard anyway. - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? Nope, not enough room. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? None at all. - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? Na' TV and radio are boring. - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? I monitor some sites sometimes. - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? Depends how fatigued I get. And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? I've got a habbit of pressing CTRL-S every other line to fequently save/back-up. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? Not really, but then again, I'm not normal. |
| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 18:05 | |
magicman
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- Do you program late at night when nobody is around to bother you? Or do you program in the afternoon, or sometime when you're more awake? i prefer to code at night, but whenever is good, just as long as im codeing. - Do you bring food? Drink? What kinds? i dont eat so much as i drink. i drink alot of energy drinks and tea. - Do you program in the dark, or with the lights on? with the lights on, definitly - Do you keep little knic-knacs around the desk to keep you in the mood? ah yes, i have all sorts of little stuff, everything from little e-wauks(teddy bear people from starwars) to budda figures. i even have a bambo plant, lots of zen stuff, i like zen. - Do you listen to your favorite band? Or, do you put on a nice soundscape track or some classical music to help you focus more? No music at all? i listen to music sometimes, when i do its just whatever i feel like - Watch TV, listen to the radio, podcast? every now and then i will watch diggnation or some other tech show in one window and program in another - Chat on IRC, IM, skype, monitor favorite websites? Or, do you totally disconnect from the internet to avoid distraction? not really, at least when im really codeing and not just messing around - Take frequent breaks or just power-code all night? no breaks other than the bathroom, when i code, i code. And finally... - Do you find yourself compiling and running your program after every new line of code you type? Or, can you code a whole block before the pressure to check it becomes overwhelming? i go a few lines, then run it, go a few more and run it again. I dont think this is such a bad thing though becasue it avoids bugs and other errors. DOES IT WORK FOR YOU? of course it dose, the only thing stopping me is lazyness to start codeing, but when i do began to code im set. -=-=- Stuff... Yeah...
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| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 18:17 | |
caffeinekid
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I code in the middle of the night in the dark with a huge winamp playlist on random. Lots of coffee and no breaks other than to do a little surfing or a few minutes chatting. I compile frequently (because I code by trial and error, rather than planning lots in advance) and make incremental backups of the code into a separate folder so I can go backwards if I take my game down the wrong path without starting from scratch. No TV while coding EVER - it's a worse distracting that the web, which is saying something, because it requires focus. Does it work for me? I've finished coding a fair few games, so I guess at least some of the time it does. -=-=- www.tcksoft.co.uk www.retroremakes.com
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| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 19:03 | |
Blitz3Dman
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magicman, it's spelled 'ewok'.
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| Mon, 09 Apr 2007, 20:25 | |
magicman
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ah, i knew i was spelling that wrong. thanks.
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| Mon, 16 Apr 2007, 02:17 | |
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JL235
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I've started learning C#, and with Visual Studio I am finding I build a lot more then I used to. But usually not to run. I build mainly to check for compile errors with my code. I can really start to see why people say Visual Studio is the best IDE. |
| Mon, 16 Apr 2007, 05:49 | |
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Blitz3Dman
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Have you tried Bloodshed Dev C++ IDE, I prefer it over Visual Studio.
-=-=- There are 10 kinds of people in this world - ( Insert 16 remarks about to what extent people know hex here ) |
| Mon, 16 Apr 2007, 05:53 | |
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Jayenkai
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How not to be productive : Putting the Level Editor on the main menu means that you very very frequently load the game, and start playing it, instead of making levels..
-=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Mon, 16 Apr 2007, 06:01 | |
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Blitz3Dman
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Or making levels instead of playing it...
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