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Socoder -> Off Topic -> Learning Java ... I guess |
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| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 01:04 | |
Pixel_Outlaw
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Learning Java ... I guess ...Welp finally forced to learn Java with Spring ... sigh. |
| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 01:04 | |
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Kuron |
Used Java a lot back in the day, but am extremely fond of B4J (killer IDE).
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| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 01:19 | |
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Pixel_Outlaw
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Learning Java ... I guess ...I'm just glad to have a shot at a job. My team got killed during post COVID layoffs. Never thought I'd be doing Java but you do what you need to survive and stand on your own two feet I guess. I'm not really scared by the size of Java, a lot of it is conceptually familiar. It's the damned build and web middleware configurations that spooks me. Take a look at all the shit involved with a /fresh/ template for a Spring service... 38 files and over 600 lines of text... |
| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 01:35 | |
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Kuron |
Java was the "in" language in the late 90s. People thought because MS was doing VisualJ that it was a good language. Prefer the BASIC layer over it I mentioned before. No matter, Java is bloated and slow. Can remember when the Java runtimes were 20-25MB. ROFLMAO. THink you probably need at least an extra 0 after that now. Way, back in the day I got the one place I was doing contract work for to move to Ecere SDK instead of Java. Haven't touched it in years either, but the author fixed an annoying (for me) bug that dang near put me into seizures. Good language back then, https://www.ecere.org |
| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 01:57 | |
Jayenkai
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The very concept of Java was ideal. A "universal" language that every machine could understand. And, they tried to make it catch on. They really did. A bit like Esperanto.. It continues to be a big thing, but it's rather telling that most people prefer to compile from anything else, into Java.. Layer upon layer upon layer. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!'' 
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| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 09:00 | |
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Kuron |
Not sure of the term to use, but "hobby chips" I will go with. There were a couple of chips largely aimed at hobbyists which used an embedded Java. These were even used in some consumer electronics/devices. Then the embedded BASIC chips kinda took over that demographic. In some ways, Java has suffered the same issues as Delphi. Change of ownership, continual change of licensing and pricing, is there a free version, is the free version dead? People liked Sun and trusted them, in spite of the issues. They did not have that same trust for Oracle. What has helped Java stay alive and keeps it popular, is like .NET, there are now alternative runtimes. Everybody I know who uses Java uses OpenJDK. Even Microsoft maintains their own build of OpenJDK for Windows, MacOS & Linux. This does an endrun around all of the Oracle crap and changing goalposts. |
| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 10:24 | |
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Krakatomato |
I've been using Java since the early days, including while working at Sun Microsystems, where we were encouraged to adopt it from the start. Java has evolved tremendously, and the performance with modern JIT compilers and garbage collection is excellent. When used modularly, you can reduce a lot of the traditional bloat. That said, many of the concerns people raise today stem more from frameworks like Spring than Java itself. Spring introduces complexity to enable features like Dependency Injection, but this comes with overhead — as it would in any language offering similar functionality. When people say they prefer JavaScript projects, it's important to separate the language from the ecosystem. JavaScript enables quick results and has a huge library base — but with that comes its own flavor of bloat and complexity, especially when managing many dependencies. Python, another popular choice, particularly in AI, also carries performance and packaging tradeoffs. Its strength lies in ecosystem maturity and readability, not runtime efficiency. Java remains one of the most used and battle-tested languages in backend development. It may not be ideal for game dev or ultra-lean projects, but for server-side work, it's robust, well-supported, and worth learning — even if it has a steeper start with frameworks like Spring. So go for it. There's still a large job market out there.
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| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 12:15 | |
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Pixel_Outlaw
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The real sad part is like the project above, programmers aren't programming. They're memorizing frameworks at a very small level and writing glue. Sure, it's been the case since we've had libraries but it's been pushed into configuration now. Programmers don't truly get to cut loose at work which is sad. Most useful things have been baked into huge monoliths designed to hit Agile deadlines while the programmer is blindsided and has to struggle program to hit deadlines not set by his manager but by the business's Agile Scrummenfuhrer. The rise of SaaS killed a lot of more interesting programming work or rather flooded the market. Nearly all of my former colleagues are considering leaving the industry - the real programming has largely been sucked out. I do wonder what Guy Steele Jr. was doing at Sun while he helped work on Java... I would have expected first class functions and a more powerful object system given his background. Something a little closer to CLOS would have been nice. But anyway, yes Java is getting better. The constant "for" looping is finally being fixed by more expressive means. Somebody finally realized that you don't need to iterate over a collection to apply a function to it. I think with the newer releases it's moving more in the right direction. Working in declarative rather than imperative way with collections feels best to me. We'll see where it goes. I'd probably use Armed Bear or even Clojure (and did for a few years professionally) over Java but hey bills are bills. 
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| Fri, 13 Jun 2025, 16:44 | |
therevillsgames
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I've was a Java professional for many years in enterprise, mainly Java 7 and 8. Learnt it as Uni JDK 1.2 iirc. Java still runs most of the backend services in some shape or form. And you can create games with it too, LibGDX is a great framework and if course Java is used for Android dev.
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